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Saturday, July 26, 2014

More on the Watties Neach debate

Posted by Dawn-Ann on March 12, 2010

I’ve written before on what I have discovered about Watties Neach (there ain’t one). Now I have stumbled upon some fresh evidence that I am correct in my assumption!

In an old edition of the Kirkpatrick Newsletter, dated Jan-Feb-Mar 1990, I found this letter to the editor. It was written by a fellow named Charles Jacobs and reads, in part:

Most of the family information from Scotland states that Alexander and his brother Andrew were born at Watties Neach in Dumfrieshire. In talking with local historians in Dumfries, I was told that there is no such a community in the area and such a name would be meaningless. Before we arrived there, a genealogist ran an inquiry in the local paper about Watties Neach. Several replied that there was a Watties Neuk [Neuch] on property known as Denby Yett. The translation would be something like Walter’s Nook or corner. Watties Neuk is nothing more than a pile of stones in a pasture at this time.

So there you go. Where my previous post says it is Wallace’s Neuch, this one says Walter’s, but in all other details we are in agreement. And the search goes on!

Comments

12 Responses to “More on the Watties Neach debate”
  1. Dawn-Ann,
    Found your blog through a Google search, and this thread on “Watties Neach”, “Wallaces House”, and “Walter’s Neuk” is of particular interest to me also. I have been trying to find out where this location was in Nithsdale/Dumfries Shire for decades, also contacting local historians in Scotland. Finally, a kind old man who had found my website contacted me and gave me quite a bit of information. His name is William Conbhail.
    First, he used to work for “…I know the site rather well as I used to work for the Scottish Office Civil Service per Historic Scotland and inspected that site several times.”
    He stated that the name Watties Neach was probably mis-interpreted, since: “…Old Scots hand writing has some similarity to Old German Sutterland Script which I am fluent in and when I write Wallace’s House it could be read as Watties Neach! but, someone trying to figure it out. As the “l” doesn’t have a loop and “a” looks a bit like “ie”…”
    He sent me links to Ordnance Survey maps of the area and Wallace’s House IS identified on it, and is in the vicinity of our Kirkpatrick Family activity near the Kirkmichael Estates owned by the “Second House of Kirkpatrick” (Closeburn being the first).
    Interesting, isn’t it?

    Sincerely,
    John P. Kirkpatrick
    Ellsinore, MO

  2. Dawn-Ann says:

    Hi John! Thank you for posting to my little site. What you say here looks really familiar and I wonder if it wasn’t your exchange with William Conbhail that I discovered online. I think I tried to email you once about it, as I was going to Scotland and wanted to find Wallace’s House but I may have had an old email or something, as I never heard back. I did not manage to find the ruins but I think I got close. Next time I will allow myself much more time.

    Are you the “jpkirkpatrick” with the website by the same name? If so, I am listed here. I think it’s amazing work you are doing and it has helped me so much with my research. My goal is to verify the branch from Scotland that “crossed the pond” so many years ago. There are a few theories floating around out there but I haven’t been able to find anything verifiable.

    Anyway, thanks again for commenting. It was very nice to hear from you.

  3. Tom Caulley says:

    Dawn, The search is over. I’ve found Wallace’s House.

    Go to this map:
    http://www.scottish-places.info/scotgaz/parishes/parmap1008.html
    Click on HISTORICAL
    Zoom in 5 clicks (be patient–it takes a while to load)
    Wallace’s House is jut above the H in KIRKMICHAEL.

    Also, I’ve set up a research and sharing site for Kirkpatricks.

    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~caulleyfamilyinfo/Kirk-Kil-Patrick/Index.html

  4. Dawn-Ann says:

    Hi Tom! Thanks for the links. The map didn’t work for me (I tried it in both browsers), but I can tell from the highway and town names that I was really close when I went searching while I was there. I didn’t have enough time but next time I will make sure I do!

    The collaboration site looks interesting, but I could not find a way to turn the music off so I didn’t stay too long. I will come back again when I have more time.

    Onward and upwards!

    Dawn

  5. Tom Caulley says:

    Dawn,

    Just mute your volume while you are there. LOL

    Tom

  6. Dawn-Ann says:

    That would work if I weren’t trying to listen to my OWN music! ;)

  7. I am very interested in the research on this site! David Kirkpatrick was a witness on the inventory of Daniel McGowan/Mckowen of Bedminister, Somerset County New Jersey, 1766. The inventory was made by Brian Lafferty, Daniel McGowan was a witness to the will of Daniel Liviston/Livingston there in 1743. Daniel McGowan/McEwen and Brian Lafferty were the executors of William McDonald D:1746 in Somerset County, New Jersey. I have a record in Dumfrieshire, Scotland dated 1695 naming a Samuel and Alex Livingston and others. I’ll have to pull this record and post more later! Samuel was the father of Daniel Livingston D;1743 in Somerset, NJ. I think, at least that’s the line I am following so far! Any followup here from anyone would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Ed

  8. Dawn-Ann says:

    Hi Ed. Thank you for writing – such an interesting puzzle, these Kirkpatricks.

    I think the David Kirkpatrick you speak of is the same one I have, who was born in Dumfriesshire and immigrated with his family to the USA. He was the son of Alexander “the Immigrant” Kirkpatrick, whose brother James is my direct ancestor. I have been hunting for their line “across the pond” for years. I get some tantalizing clues now and then but so far no luck.

    I do not have any Livingstons in my database besides some living Canadians who married into the family. I do, however, have a Daniel McEowen (that’s how I have it spelled), who was the brother of Mary McEowen, who married David Kirkpatrick. There must be a connection. This is exciting!

    Let’s keep in touch. I’m going to print out your comment and use it in my research. I’m super busy right now, though, so it may be awhile before you hear back from me.

    Take care!

    Dawn

  9. Hi Dawn,
    I am pretty sure we are on the same page! The record I refer to in Scotland is a Sheriffs Deed dated 1695! In involves John Maxwell of Middlebie, Dumfrieshire, Scotland there is much on this Maxwell family! There is a connection between David Kirkpatrick and Alexander Linn the father of James Linn, do a Google on “James Linn” the representative of New Jersey. The Linn’s were in Belfast, Northern Ireland before coming to New Jersey. James Married Mary Livingston the daughter of Gov. William Livingston of New Jersey. You may contact me directly a my email if you wish. Have access to the New Jersey wills etc. More later!

  10. Dawn-Ann says:

    This is so exciting. Thanks again, Edward! I am planning a trip to Belfast next spring and I have a feeling this information will help me a lot. I will follow up on the Linns and let you know if I find any connections!

    Dawn

  11. Paul Langer says:

    Hi Dawn-Ann. Sorry for posting on such an old thread. I hope you still monitor these.

    Have you gone back to find Wallace’s House yet? I am also a Kirkpatrick researcher with ties to James (of South Carolina). I have only found Wallace’s House mapped on the Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Scotland (RCAHMS) website. Visit RCAHMS.gov.uk, then search “Wallace’s House.” Syntax needs to be pretty precise, as the search engine is a little funny.

    The results will include the site ‘NY09SW 2′. This is a ruined fort in Knock Wood, just above Garrel Church (also shown as Garvald and Barvald). The interesting thing is that James’s ancestor may be George of Knock, who is supposed to be buried in the Garrel graveyard.

    Knock Wood, Wallace’s House and Garrel Church are all within a 1/4 mile of each other. I consider all of this to be another bit of evidence that ‘Wattie’s Neach’ was a misreading of the real name, perpetuated through the years because there was nothing to disprove it. Many Thanks to John Kirkpatrick for breaking the log jam on this.

  12. Dawn-Ann says:

    Hi Paul. Thanks for commenting! I haven’t been back to Scotland but I have recently learned of some archaeological research in the area and I will post when I learn more. I believe it is the same research mentioned here: http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/event/978368/

    I have gone around and around about old George of Knock. In some records it seems as though he is our ancestor, but the list of his offspring does not match “our” immigrant brothers and their sister. I am actually planning a trip to Ireland in the spring so that I can do some research in the Belfast area, where they went before they came to North America.

    Always nice to meet another “cousin.” Keep in touch! I will post findings here as I discover them.

    Dawn

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